. There has been financial fraud committed by Harvest and its leaders. That argument may not work as there are other factors to be considered. And probably just as Drama-Rama and Fundy about it, Magick Crystals and all. Consider the following Scriptures: And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors [POIMEN] and teachers (Ephesians 4:11). Do like King David did (by writing Psalm 51 and signing his name for eternity) sign your name to your failure then go find some hurting people from Harvest and minister to them. Jesus said it is basically impossible that any rich man ever makes it into Gods Kingdom, and you and the others have ignored that. Unless it was a danger to someone. Dallas Jenkins And The Mormon's Counterfeit Jesus According to Ingrid McCullough: Mr. Jenkins claims that he felt God speaking to him 3-4 times in his life. Wasnt it Groucho Marx who once quipped, I would never join an organization who would have me as a member? Ishy: Noevangelical: So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? This also is so very true! I dont see how you could get any further from the mark in your comment. To do that you must have first hand knowledge and part of that fellowship in some fashion in order to be qualified to hold people accountable before God. How does he know that? Youre standing on the right box, IMO. Ideally, we wouldnt need Twitter and blogs to expose the truth about corrupt churches, ministries, and their leaders. And it appears that this started with the first generation after the original apostles since Ignatius was discipled by the Apostle John and Clement was trained under Peter and James. I was a strong donor who loved the church and served in multiple areasI was in a good place spirituallybut I didnt meet the qualifications. . I suspect, from many comments of those involved, that there was an actual mafia-like aspect of JMacs control. Fred not only took out debt to fund new purchases, he took out additional debt on already encumbered buildings. The too big to fail driver kicks in and makes church leaders think and do things they might not otherwise. Their goals are solidly biblical, and the show appears to be bearing fruit to the glory . Your apoplectic friend needs to go read the Bible, maybe one of those verses the mega preachers who demand your trust intentionally ignore or havent read themselves, like this one: Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save. Psalms 146:3, Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25, Do not trust a neighbor; put no confidence in a friend. FOR WITHOUT THEM ONE CANNOT SPEAK OF THE CHURCH. a Christian/inspirational filmmaker, and former Director of Visual Media and member of the Executive Leadership Team at Harvest Bible Chapel . 20 years for me. Something major happened this evening and I will speak about when I can. The beat goes on until Jesus returns. For a son dishonors his father, a daughter rises up against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a mans enemies are the members of his own household. This is something that all Christians in a church community should take to heart. Thats all it takes, my friend. (Protestia) Dallas Jenkins, son of "Left Behind" author Jerry Jenkins, and Director of the smash-hit TV show The Chosen continued to double down on controversial comments he made last year about Mormons (Latter Day Saints, ie LDS) and Jesus loving the same Jesus, appearing on Ruslan KD's channel and again insisting that some of his Mormon friends With so much at stake, it can be very tempting to cut corners for the sake of what is viewed as a larger good. * Apparently, many of the leaders sent their kids to Harvest Academy and there is fear that their kids will be thrown out of school. View All. Everything after those three paragraphs is my comment. This concerns me. In any normal group setting, the members will naturally turn to the most mature and experienced among them for direction and advice. What are sheep to do? Dallas, I have news for you. Church, this is good advice for all of us! Youre barking your wares to a wised-up crowd, and unlikely to terrify many here. Dallas, please reconsider your position. So many things bring to mind what Leah Remini is bringing to light. Of course Im not omniscient, only God knows. The churches have become the world. We have seen God continue to change lives through the people and ministries of our church. It feels like Im eaten away inside. TS00: Thats it right there. And after a brief pause in this mission, Harvest is returning to planting more and better churches by raising up more and better Christian leaders across Chicagoland, America, and around the world. James MacDonald was one the most well known mega church pastors in the U.S. until he was fired from Harvest Bible Chapel, the church he founded and pastored . When I now go to a church, I want to speak with elders and listen to what they are saying and how they are behaving and whether they are willing to reveal how much the pastor is making. That movie became a kind of a shibboleth at our church when it came out. a human-designated term. I am not saying that I am a proponent of hierarchy. All kidding aside, may you, Jessica, Ryan Mahoney, Dee Parsons, any many others who are continuing to fight the good fight be richly blessed. Its your choiceAnonymity is not the same thing as cowardice, but thanks so much for playing that tired old game. The official anniversary date was September 18, 2018. John: When I now go to a church, I want to speak with elders. In fact, you can take it a lot farther than that. but ultimately it means people are brainwashed into being acquiescent, passive, accommodating, maintaining their silence. I have never followed P & P, as I do not care for their theology nor their approach. i mean, why does it matter, any more than what elastigirl thinks, or what Max thinks, or what any of the other cast characters thinks? Noevangelical: Both HBC & WC had a plurality of elders and a single pastor as the head of their church. (1 Peter 4:14). And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. Accept that and use this springboard given by God to be the leader God always intended you to be. With their leadership training, it appears that men like Hybels and MacDonald groom charismatic potential leaders in how to control and manipulate naive, trusting believers for their own personal, or the institutions, gain. Gee, how much money are they making on this deal? Some might even suggest it seems suspiciously tied to new disclosures concerning films he made, gambling issues which have also concerned both Dallas and his father, etc. We know the examples of Timothy, Titus etc. Harvest Bible Chapel on the Lord's Way in Naples was once one of eight campuses of the 40,000-member, Illinois-based Harvest Bible Chapel. Whatever we do as a church family, this is Gods work among us this is His church and His mission, to the glory of Jesus Christ. I feel like Jesus is a million miles off, and I know thats got to me my fault, not His, because frankly, I ignored Gods nudges at each and every abusive church we attended (there were three), its not like I can blame Him. I can hardly stand to read that section in my Bible, much less watch it acted out. So yeah, theres really NOBODY looking over Driscolls shoulder. Amy Moore, People were dying for this faith from the very beginning, which suggests that it was not merely wishful thinking about some made up traditions. Harvest was known for emphasizing unapologetic preaching of the Bible, unashamed adoration of God's Son, unafraid witness to the gospel, and unceasing prayer. You have done some confession, but in private only. hospitable He was also a member of a team at the Harvest Bible Chapel. Ken F (aka Tweed): trained under Peter and James. Thats really the point. In 2021, Camp Harvest was sold to a ministry to continue the maintenance and ongoing work of ministry to young people, youth ministry, and camp events. Dallas Jenkins: It was given to the elders two months ago. , but my fans urged me to stay. Sadly, many have not served well. Take away the money and you will find far fewer wolves circling the pot. Crazy, huh? Greg Laurie Feb 27, 2023 Harvest Online Worship Resources Our online church worship resources are designed to help you know God deeper and engage with His word on a whole new level. Its also possible it wasnt a continuous period of teaching, that there were times when they all had to go to work because they had families to support. Fans of hit TV series The Chosen know creator Dallas Jenkins' "five loaves and two fish story". Ive heard the voice of my Savior, You should repent and make reparations where necessary. I guess the other 25% are hoping to get some plum positions. And for keeping ones mouth shut on the way out? If a familys personal pain about a very private matter doesnt fit that category, I dont know what would. I think its one of the reasons that the mega movement has been so attractive to laity as well as leaders; they imagine that a bigger, more resource-rich group will be able to rescue more people from the terrible fate they would otherwise experience. Remove the plank so the splinter can be clearly seen. In the last two years, 75% of the Executive Leadership team has left HBC. Jerry Jenkins "James and the elders at Harvest have assured us that they are in the process of seeking out every person who has expressed an offense or criticism, with the intention of meeting with them personally, hearing them out, and making things right," Jenkins wrote. From the earliest days of the institutional church, abuse and murder has been wreaked upon those who dared to believe that they could serve God outside of The Church. And all youre ever going to be is mean Please never leave this forum. Please forgive me. And thats the cold, hard truth. He relocated here from another state to marry my daughter, and pastors a small mainstream church that has been struggling to keep its doors open the past few years. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. They kept +/-$170,000 in credit card payment from campers in the general fund and showed it as revenue. We find out that the pastor is living in a $2 million house, he said. If they couldnt get it right after three years of intensive time with Jesus, what chance do we have? We want proof, not opinion, so we can weed out the arrogance from others who believe they know best and will determine what the rest should think and believe. Known for its racial and economic diversity, the congregation moved into a converted warehouse in Rolling Meadows, Illinois, in 1995. God put you there, who are you to take yourself out? The wheels of justice turn slowly. The potty-mouth preacher from Seattle is still a big draw for macho-men-wannabes and hes found a new audience within Assembly of God ranks. MORE CONCERNING THE ELDERSHIP Its time for all these leaders to stop whining as if they were the victims and demonstrate a genuine show of sackcloth and ashes before the masses they deceived the real victims who must now live with being tithe-paying participants in this scam against Holy God. ex HCA Staff: Thrilled for both of them as they start their life together. Dont think our former pastors quite there. However, a Calvinist fanboy and wannabe celebrity showed up spouting Piper, Driscoll and insisted on hiring a guy from Sovereign Graces mothership-CLC. Note, I am using my name.. Amen. All three of those aspects are absent from the biblical directives in providing care and oversight to Gods children. Notice how you need to be part of this first hand, and not from a distance like on the world wide web for even unbelievers to see. Several decades is quite a long time for a good, biblical non-hierarchical to hold on. What is the source? Acts 20:17, Paul called the elders. 1 Peter 5:1, Peter exhorted the elders. It is never one individual who rules over the church, but a group of people, the elders. The statements were given to Greg Bradshaw, who shared with only a few Elders. I just found out about it a few minutes ago. Hours . Sadly, many have not served well. what are these things you see in such people that you identify as being grace-filled? The present situation has for me the feel of exile and diaspora in the intertestamental period. He is already in the process of trying to reboot his digital ministry (WITW)and is romancing wealthy donors in Naples, FL from the $1.2M home in Naples that Harvest rented for him. The first service in this new house of God was held on September 10, 1995. I was in a back and forth with some supporters of another well-known abusive megachurch leader recently, and one of the fans of the leader assumed I was posting under a made-up name and then slammed me for my cowardice as being anonymous. Our pastor, weeping, said it was one of the greatest movies he ever saw. Your actions are tell tale in what you believe regard God and Jesus his son. If you dont get why your letter was leaked and why people are upset, I would say youre isolated and you need to take the blinders off. It would appear that Jesus last words to them were sort of a rebuke. Why would anyone want to kill a magnificent creature like that? So instead of trying to defend these rascals, I prefer to inform and warn the church about the wolves in their midst rather than giving them a break. Ive seen the lightning flashing, There have been many people demanding our statements be made public, and now that they are, are rejoicing in that, all while commenting from anonymous online handles. Turns out that he was looking to fulfill his succession plan all along, and was just cycling thru people until he found one that fit. I will have to wait until I get to my computer because Im on my phone and the type of the letter is too small to read. john, i truly suspect that the only difference between my friends & family i described above and the grace-filled believer you describe is window dressing: vocabulary used when speaking, a smiley face, a tone of voice, body language. I think theres a massive problem with the deference thats given to pastors and other religious leaders. Pre-1970 power (denominational competition for theological control of the Body of Christ), Post-1970 money (mega-madness begins, 6-figure salaries, limelight, mansions, jets). Harvest took in over a HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in the last 12 yrs and many of their properties were donated free and clear. Shes gone after him more than most. That, in my humble, fallible opinion, explains much of the evil that has taken place in this world. SiteSeer: I see nothing denoting an office. It seems like to me that in a group of people, these things sort themselves out without anyone declaring it to be a position and appointing people to it. This was a guy who was lauded before thousands each week on the stage, promoted on a national radio program, spread his influence through 18 books. God bless. It is not elaborate but adequate for what we seek to do for Gods Kingdom. Law Prof: Years later, the church long ago destroyed by heavy abuse and the former members scattered, a number of them atheists today, that drama pastor is now into the New Age. I guess I mean that a person, on his or her own, cant do it without God working it out in that person. If GP will cave to SBC outrage over a tweet in order to GET the contract, what else might they quietly cave on for the sake of KEEPING the contract or for getting the next one? Even during Christs life the disciples were weighing out who was most important and who would take the position above all the others. The Didache and letters of Ignatius and Clement confirm this, as well as other writings from the early second century. I havent read the comments, and Im just going to say that seeing a dead bear there with James McDonald behind it made me sick. Keep reading. Thank you for your insights. Both Steve Carter and Jenkins waited for public outcry and then expressed their moral outrage. This is no different then the very worst of false teachers in 2019. Forgive MacDonald if he genuinely repents? Max: Friend: What bothers me about the megas is not just the bad theology and oppression, but the sheer size. . Thompson walked away from Harvest in 2013. Who are you to tell people to shut up anyway? Yeah, thats it self-esteem. The true believers need to either find a local church or seek spiritual counseling because they have a VERY warped sense of church. He didnt. I believe that would be the consensus of the Body of Christ at large, after getting a glimpse of his shenanigans. That was all it was intended to be. Neither Dean Butters nor I wanted our letters published. Once fear grasps and security is sought, the ability and desire to do the right thing and think critically becomes nearly impossible when it means you too could be hurt or humbled. Dallas has at long last come out, along with a long list of other former top Harvest leadrs. Throughout the many posts, including this one, there has been some balance and at least an appearance to be open for discussion, albeit without original proof. 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